negotiation

How do you play with fear if you don’t know what scares you/them?

If you’ve ever had an interest in exploring fear play but drawn a pretty LOUD damn blank when asked “what are you afraid of?”, you’re in very good company.

That is probably the most common question I got when I first started teaching my “Playing with Fear” class. And to be quite honest with you… I get why, because I didn’t know the answer to it either. I’m not sure I do even now.

That’s not because nothing scares me. I don’t have *phobias* per se, these days, but I’ve had plenty of experiences that leave me shaking, both in and out of kink. Trust me.

And I’ve also had plenty of scenes where what leaves me too terrified to meet the Love of my life’s eyes are the same sorts of words and touches as I encounter every day, just with something… else that’s added on top. But can I put I to words exactly what does it, what that something else *IS*?

Sometimes. Sure, in discrete moments. In general, though? …no, not really. Not in a solid reliable answer to “what are you afraid of?”

And not in a way that covers what a lot of us are really asking when we struggle with that question: “If what scares me is a sort of danger that I know for a fact this human who cares for me is never gonna put me in, given their desire to not kill me and/or end up traumatizing me and breaking our trust forever… Then what? How can I forget for long enough to feel actually threatened?”

(And no, the answer is not “get a top who can convince you they’ve lost it entirely” — mindfucks like that can be hot and fun and interesting for a lotta folks and are ONE possible solution to this whole thing, but they also can be a breach of the faith we put in our play partners and absolutely need to be negotiated for explicitly as not everyone is at all interested in having to ask those questions about their tops’ stability. Anyway, I’ll get off this soapbox FOR NOW, that’s another writing for another day, but boy am I tired of seeing mindfucks be treated as something everyone who likes fear play is automatically also interested in and consenting to!!!!)

Still, I do have one strategy that I’ve found really helpful. And it lies in realizing that the problem was never in the lack of answer.

“What scares you?” is a question that expects a noun. What I had—what lots of us have—in thinking about fear was a lot more about verbs. A flinch. A pull away. A sped-up breath. A shaking thigh.

Our threat systems aren’t built around things. They’re built around behaviors.

Fear, at its most primal, is a survival instinct. And in nature, knowing exactly what causes that fear really just… doesn’t matter all that much?

See, threat detection happens subcortically. Your amygdala fires, your defensive systems activate, your posture changes, all of this before the cortex has finished processing what the threat actually is. You’ve likely experienced this: the jolt when you’re startled before you know *what* startled you, the flinch or dread before you can say *why.* Your body already organizing a response while your conscious mind was still loading up, basically. Sometimes it never loads at all.

And the beautiful thing is it happens anyway. Your nervous system doesn’t wait for you to answer that question. It registers and prepares for danger regardless: increased vigilance, scanning, readiness-to-run, an uneasy sense of apprehension that doesn’t point anywhere specific but turns something analytic on in us, and so forth.

These things get easily dismissed as “intuition”and brushed aside as if they’re useless (which is in part a gendered thing that I’ll also avoid soapboxing on right now but JUST KNOW THAT SOAP BOX IS THERE, LIVIN’ IN MY HEAD), but that’s not useless. At all. That’s a whole damn survival instinct! Picking up on something being a danger, even without the ability to articulate what… that’s what keeps animals alive.

So when someone asks “what are you afraid of?” and you go blank, that blank isn’t as empty as it may seem. It’s full of information. It just isn’t information your verbal brain can always articulate.

That’s not to say it can’t be super useful in negotiation if you DO have a solid answer to that question, and if you do, by all means, use it! But the reality of what underlies fear is danger and how it registers in your nervous system. And the reality of danger is that it is often ambiguous.

Why else it can be so tough to answer this

There are several research-based reasons behind the “I don’t know what I’m scared of” problem, and they aren’t mutually exclusive, because real people are complex and nuanced. So in real people, these things often stack. This is hardly all-inclusive as is. But just for a few:

Fear generalizes. When we learn that something is dangerous, that learning doesn’t usually get to stay neatly contained in the fear folder in our brains. It can spread to similar cues, adjacent contexts, loosely related situations, etc. until the original trigger is buried under a broad wash of “this feels bad.” (Which is worth keeping in mind as far as the context of where you plan your fear scenes and what sensory elements might be involved, which is one part of what we talk about in the design portion of fear play class!) The further fear generalizes, the harder it is to point back to the source. Which means we are sometimes left with a lot of readiness and very little specificity.

Emotional granularity and detection skills vary too, especially in our modern lives, which often try and distract us from sitting and quietly feeling things in a way that makes all of us a little worse at ID-ing things with particular specificity. It’s why I made tools like the Emotional S/m Feeling Wheel, but the tool *existing* doesn’t make it easy for everyone to actually tell these words apart in their experience. Some people experience “feels bad, man” as one single undifferentiated signal; others can instantly parse it into fear, shame, grief, overwhelm, anger, disgust, etc.; most of us are somewhere in-between. Like most skills, it can be trained. But if you *don’t* intentionally work on that, it doesn’t just come naturally for everyone, and that’s okay!

Sometimes the “threat” really is entirely internal or nebulous. What I’ve been trying to get across is fear simply doesn’t require a clear external object all the time. Fear doesn’t require a noun. A body sensation (tight chest, nausea, sudden heat), a memory fragment, a meaning your nervous system assigned to something, these can all activate your threat system without a School House Rock person-place-or-thing to point to.

And even when you can, in most cases, it isn’t the whole story. You’re not reallu afraid of the dark *itself*. You’re not afraid of what you do logically know is just the Laundry Chair in the corner of your room (though you might be scared of the workload; fellow ADHD kinksters I see you, and lemme tell you, you’re never sitting in that chair again and as long as it’s there to toss stuff on, you will keep tossing the stuff there). You’re not afraid of the fact that when you flip the light switch, it does the same thing as every other person’s light switch.

You’re afraid of what you don’t know is there or not.

Or, put another way, your heart and breathing do something when the light goes out and in the end, we call that fear. The verb of what your body did. Not the noun of what isn’t there.

Not knowing the noun to answer “what are you scared of?” with doesn’t change that the fear is real. Not knowing the noun may sometimes even be the REASON that it’s real.

So the problem isn’t your lack of answer. The problem is that “what are you afraid of?” has always been the wrong question.

See, ethologists (researchers who study behavior in natural contexts) don’t study fear by asking animals what they’re afraid of. They study it by watching what animals prepare to DO.

And that’s because fear isn’t just an emotion. Fear is a motivational state. It functions to make us do *something* as a way to survive.

An animal has a “flight distance” (the point at which it runs) and a smaller “critical distance” (the point at which, if it can’t run, it turns and fights). These things can be studied. They might also freeze (decide they can’t run *or* fight and their best bet is to try and blend into the tall grass, so-to-speak), flop (not *quite* as common in humans but does exist; we can essentially think of this as fainting or going rag-doll to “play dead”), or fawn (a largely-human instinct to appease the threat instead of fight or avoid it). These can be studied too. We can’t ask the gazelle why it freezes in tall grass. But we have a pretty damn good guess, if a lion is nearby.

Regardless of what your actual personal fear responses tend toward (which is worth knowing also, especially because tops can use that to dial intensity up or down and because each response comes with risks of its own), my suggestion for those who struggle with this question is to focus on just how fear is studied in *any* animal: fear is a motivational state that gives rise to behaviors that serve as attempts to defend yourself, blend in, or escape the threat in some way.

And… that’s the reframe. That’s what it comes down to. “What scares you?” is always gonna be limited. But these are the questions that might unlock something slightly more useful, or simply provide another angle to thinking about it all:

What makes you want to defend yourself?

What makes you want to be small and unseen?

What makes you want to escape?

If you struggle to know what scares you, let go of the word “scared.” Point instead at the thing your body is already doing: the action tendency, not the label. The state you’re actually trying to evoke of fear is a motivational one—and so what causes that motivation is the answer, even if it’s not always what you can cleanly connect to words like “panic” or “dread” when you think about it logically.

Other ways of answering

If those reframe questions still draw a blank, that’s okay! Really, this stuff can be tough.

So here are a few other possible handles to hold on to to try and open this particular sticky drawer in your brain up:

  1. Track the action urge. This is a different approach to the same idea of reframing the “what scares you” question to asking what causes your body to want to DO something, just via actually taking notes over time as opposed to some innate self-knowing. Even if you can’t notice these signs internally yourself, you can track them with help: I outsourced noticing some of mine to watching a video we took of a scene, and I’ve seen some friends do cool stuff by pairing that idea with a Fitbit. Or you can ask for help from your play partner(s), or even just an observant voyeuristic friend. Can they help you notice what sorts of things cause you to step or turn away, or when your eyes flit toward the exits? These signal that desire for escape, even though most of us don’t run out of the room while we are playing. When do you brace yourself, ball your fists, or offer more physical resistance? That’s the defense urge. What about going more *still* than usual? Or wrapping your arms around yourself in a way that would cover your vital organs (which we nearly never consciously think of ourselves as doing when we cross our arms over our chest defiantly, but yet is what a LOT of folks do in times of fear)? These physical things may be trackable even when the “why” isn’t, and if you can take some notes each time, the patterns that come out of it will eventually give you/your play partner(s) something real to work with.
  2. Track the bodily sensation. A lot of fear is interoceptive, which means it lives in internally-detected sensation. Tight chest. Heat. Nausea. Buzzing. Chattering teeth. The heaviness in your limbs that you might mistake for tiredness. Interoception isn’t easy for everyone but if you ARE able to notice these things, you can track when those occur without having to alwaystry to explain them. The sensation *itself* is the data, and this still can be something that eventually leads to a usable pattern.
  3. Name the uncertainty itself as the fear. Sometimes the trigger of fear genuinely IS as simple as not knowing what’s coming. “Intolerance of uncertainty” is a pretty well-documented phenomenon: the difficulty of enduring missing information. If ambiguity itself is what activates your threat system, that’s not a dead end, and can actually be a pretty powerful tool for tops to utilize.

And those are just a few of the possible approaches. Don’t get me wrong, depending who you are, they may take some time to produce usable information. But if just one of those leads to any sort of answer for you repeatedly, even a single fuzzy one, now you’ve moved from “I don’t know what I’m scared of” to something more negotiable.

And FWIW, all of this can come out as titrated, choiceful exploration. Which isn’t to say you HAVE to go slow—it’s the safer option, but lord knows I didn’t, so it’d be pretty hypocritical for me to say you’ve gotta—only that being interested in fear play does NOT *have* to mean an interest in forced catharsis, nor “facing your demons,” nor that you need be able to produce insight on command. This is all something you can warm up to and build on over time. Ultimately, whatever the speed, the goal is building trackable patterns you can share with trusted partners, revisit over time, and adjust as you learn more.




Here’s what I want you to take from all this: the door to fear play isn’t locked behind some mysterious self-knowledge you personally are somehow missing out on. There is nothing you are lacking if you have no irrational phobias or can’t name what could scare you in this context.

You may be asking the wrong questions, however. So if this is a thing you, too, struggle with, try out some of the reframes instead. And if those other questions still give you nothing, then see if you or someone who is willing to help you out here can begin to notice what your body seems to want to DO—escape, defend, freeze, scan, appease—and start to take a few notes. Take a few more next time. Once you find a pattern, now you have a stronger starting point than you did in the past.

You don’t need to know what scares you or why to play with fear. And you don’t need a tidy narrative or a perfectly articulated fantasy with clear-cut boundaries. You just need something to start from. Add a bit of curiosity, someone you trust, and some willingness to iterate (which means understanding that scenes which don’t land perfectly are still data that can make future scenes better), and you’re already doing the work.

The rest is practice.

Go do something hot.


If you’re reading this and this tends to be the kind of play you’re into, I hope you’ll consider joining me on Zoom with @Praxium next week.

Playing with Fear: Empowered Navigation of Thrills and Risks is virtual on Tuesday, April 14 from 7:45 – 9:45 PM ET (4:45-6:45 PM PT).

Whether you’re topping or bottoming, whether you’re experienced here or just curious, and whether you can name what you or your person are scared of at all or not.

❤️ Be sure to save your seat and receive your Zoom link by getting your ticket HERE ❤️

Posted by vahavta

Personal Pain Response Decoder for Masochists

Pain isn’t just one thing, and we don’t respond to it in just one way. Here’s a tool for finding the nuance of what that means for for you and communicating it to your top. (And hey, if you’re seeing this before 5pm Eastern on January 11 I’d love to see you at my Zoom class on pain processing, where we’ll talk about how to lean into the sensations and responses we crave the most.)

Infographic titled "Personal Pain Response Decoder" by Kink Beyond Limits. Instructions read: "Draw lines between types of pain and your typical responses. Some might map to multiple responses." Left column labeled "Pain Type" lists: sting/snap, thud/heavy, burn/surface heat, stretch/pull, sharp/piercing, bruise-y/deep ache, pressure/compression, buzzing/electric, soreness/muscle fatigue, abrasion/scrape, cold/prickling. Right column labeled "My Experience" lists: I feel floaty/blissful, I feel present/focused, I feel tearful (in a good way), I feel powerful/proud, I feel submissive, I feel defiant or bratty, I feel turned on, I feel panicky, I feel weak or self-conscious, I feel closer to my partner, I dissociate. Footer note explains that responses may vary based on context, partner, hydration, energy, hormonal cycles, medications, and other factors. Design features dark textured background with red accent headers and capsule-shaped response options.

Alt text: Infographic titled “Personal Pain Response Decoder” with footer attribution to Kink Beyond Limits by vahavta. Instructions read: “Draw lines between types of pain and your typical responses. Some might map to multiple responses.” Left column labeled “Pain Type” lists: sting/snap, thud/heavy, burn/surface heat, stretch/pull, sharp/piercing, bruise-y/deep ache, pressure/compression, buzzing/electric, soreness/muscle fatigue, abrasion/scrape, cold/prickling. Right column labeled “My Experience” lists: I feel floaty/blissful, I feel present/focused, I feel tearful (in a good way), I feel powerful/proud, I feel submissive, I feel defiant or bratty, I feel turned on, I feel panicky, I feel weak or self-conscious, I feel closer to my partner, I dissociate. Footer note explains that responses may vary based on context, partner, hydration, energy, hormonal cycles, medications, and other factors. Design has black background with red accent headers and capsule-shaped response options.

Posted by vahavta

How to Communicate About Your Degradation Kink

Degradation kink and humiliation play can be some of the most intense forms of emotional S/M—but they’re also some of the hardest to negotiate. Telling a top “I like degradation” before a scene doesn’t actually clarify if you mean playful objectification, true humiliation, CNC, or something else. This guide will show you how to translate your personal “I like degradation” into clear, negotiable steps so that you can fulfill more of your BDSM dreams.

My friend Courtney and I have something in common: we both like appearance-based degradation. (Hey shut up weird thing to bond over but I’ve bonded over weirder and so have most of you.) But it turns out this looks… really different for us.

See, Courtney loves having “date” scenes where a play partner takes her out, whispers to her all evening about how unflattering her dress is and how ugly her freckles are, and then cuckolds her. Then, she wants them to be clear as to how gorgeous she is.

That wouldn’t work for me for a variety of reasons. I remember once, after mentioning degradation to an ex, having sex while he tried to tell me how unattractive I was to him and being like “yeah except the past three years of you telling me I’m hot kinda makes this feel just like lying?” as I totally checked out of the evening. And then nobody got off and everyone was in a Mood.

On the other hand, Courtney once told me about a scene where someone stripped her down, sat her on newspaper on top of a washing machine, and turned it on. They then circled in marker everywhere on her body that jiggled and played some kind of porn as they pointed out when the newspaper started to show how wet she was.

From her perspective, this was just “mean girl bullying” and didn’t land. Sure, she jiggled on top of a washing machine. So what? Don’t all of us? Besides, in what other situations would she end up on a washing machine? Meanwhile, I ended that conversation and immediately added “bullying” to my fetish list.

For me, appearance-based degradation is about being made disgusting. The degradation is the play. I want my face fucked with. I want my hair rubbed in cum or worse. I want to feel like I’ve been put in a position where any innate hotness I have doesn’t even matter, because I’m more useful to my Owner as a source of amusement.

For her, appearance-based degradation is about being unattractive in some way, and it’s more like foreplay where the scene = the consequences of that. And she wants to know afterwards that it was all made up.

Both are degradation.
But when we said it, we meant very different things.

This is because while traditional negotiation in kink is often activity-first—“I want spanking,” “I want rope,” and so forth; you can say yes to “flogging” and both people usually know what to expect—emotional S/m doesn’t work that way. “I want degradation,” “humiliation,” or any other -ation can have *completely* different implications and emotional effects depending on how it’s delivered, why it’s happening, and what it means in the context of the scene or dynamic.

Reverse-Engineering from “I Like Degradation” to “Here’s How to Degrade Me”

Here’s what I know after over a decade of bottoming to emotional play, and half of that teaching classes like my “Negotiating and Communicating for Emotional S/m” (and for CNC!): most of us into Emotional S/m (ESM) have highly specific desires. We just often lack the language to communicate them. We say things like “humiliate me” or “degrade me” or “break me down,” and we genuinely mean something by those words. But those phrases are like saying “I want to feel good” — technically true, but useless in practicality.

Your partner can’t read your mind. Sometimes, things just don’t translate. But guessing and getting it wrong with emotional play doesn’t just mean the scene wasn’t hot. It can also mean serious psychological harm. As I’ve written before, you can’t safeword out of your own head. A scene might stop escalating, but the impact of what happened doesn’t necessarily stop with it. All the more reason to articulate what we want as clearly as possible.

So here’s a bit of a process to help you narrow down what you do and don’t desire in this realm. (This can be done from either side, but I personally speak from the right side of the slash.)

STEP 1: Name the Target Feeling Precisely

So to do this, we start with the emotion, not the activity. What do you want to feel during or because of this scene? If you need inspiration, you might use the ESM-adapted emotion wheel I made (or write out your own), or even use a thesaurus… an ESM negotiator’s best friend, IMO!

Emotion wheel for emotional S/M negotiation and degradation play - showing relationships between feelings like shame, disgust, fear, and humiliation
Use this tool to target the exact flavor of degradation, humiliation, or other emotions you’re looking to add to your BDSM play!
Want your very own sticker of this wheel? You can get one on Etsy here.

What’s important is you get specific: not just “degraded” or “humiliated,” but flavors like dehumanized, exposed, made disgusting.

Maybe you know this answer innately. If not, you might ask yourself questions like…

  • If I could only keep one word from the emotion wheel, which is it and why?
  • When I’ve fantasized about emotional play, which feelings am I chasing?
  • Are there feelings that I’ve experienced accidentally in play which I want to recreate intentionally?
  • Are there feelings that seem hot in fantasy but I suspect would be devastating in reality?
  • If I imagine the perfect scene for what I want right now, what emotion am I left with at the peak moment, and what emotion am I left with after it’s over?
  • Is what I want to be seen as [word], or being made [word]?
  • Are there adjacent feelings on the wheel that I’m not interested in, even though they’re close? (This helps identify boundaries within a category!)

STEP 2: Mine Your History for What’s Created This Before

Helping someone else create this emotion in you means giving them some kind of framework of how. Sometimes, we can mine this from past memories, with or without them being ones we’d call play.

I recommend looking in the following places:

Kink experiences: Scenes that worked, dynamics that hit right, porn/erotica that made you go “oh, yeah, that

Vanilla experiences: Moments of genuine shame, fear, exposure, worthlessness, etc. (yes, even the painful ones, to the extent that is safe for you — you’re looking for data, not trying to relive these memories (unless you *are* trying to, of course))

Fantasies: Even ones you’d never actually do, as they often reveal what your psyche is actually responding to

To get to these, you might ask yourself:

  • In a kink scene or dynamic moment where I felt something close to this target emotion, what specifically was happening? Who was there? What did they say or do?
  • In a vanilla experience where I felt this way (even if you I didn’t want to at the time), what were the conditions then?
  • Is there a specific memory I keep returning to—even if it wasn’t kink—that has the emotional flavor I’m chasing?
  • Which story/porn/fanfic beat made my chest pull tight in the right way, and what was the narrative meaning of the emotion (punishment, use, entertainment, devotion)?
  • When have people tried to create this feeling in me and missed? What was different about those times?
  • If I could direct a film scene of this happening to someone, what would I include? What would be essential vs. optional?
  • Have I ever felt [target emotion] and found it erotic vs. felt it and found it devastating? What was different between those times?

And don’t censor yourself here, seriously. Something might have worked in your head that you’d never actually do, and that’s totally fine. The point is to notice patterns.

Which then brings me to…

STEP 3: Pattern Recognition and/or Choosing New Context on Purpose

From your notes, look for repeat details. These might be sensory (e.g., public vs. private; verbal vs. physical; eye contact vs. averted; posture/position), relational (e.g., who can say/do this? Someone whose respect you’ve earned? Someone who holds power over you? Anyone? Does it require them to really believe or clearly not believe something?), narrative (e.g., the meaning/why it’s happening, like for someone’s amusement, a sadist’s pleasure, “because you deserve this”), or contextual (e.g., timing, setting, what comes before/after). Ask yourself questions like:

  • What sensory elements appear most often? (Words in a particular tone? Being positioned a certain way? Being watched? Physical touch or lack of it?)
  • Who delivers the experiences that work? What’s true about those people/relationships that isn’t true of the times it didn’t work?
  • What meaning does the degradation/humiliation/fear/whatever carry in the moments that land right? What is whatever is happening meant to signify about me?
  • Do I need buildup or does it work better when it’s sudden?
  • Does this need to be “deserved” somehow or does it work better when it’s arbitrary?
  • Do words or actions get me here quicker?

Quick aside: Meaning matters most.

If you could only answer one of these, make it meaning. Meaning is what can get fuzziest in between these emotions, which means it’s actually the most important part. Different “meanings” in ESM might be things like…

  • “You are less than others.”
  • “You failed/disappointed.”
  • “You are only useful for X.”
  • “You are disgusting/shameful.”
  • “You are beneath notice.”
  • “You deserve this treatment.”
  • “You exist for my entertainment”

…but this is a very non-exhaustive list!

And also, meanings interact with relationships. Some may feel safer for you inside steady devoted commitment (“only useful for X” can feel like worshipful utility) but dangerous inside more brittle attachments, or some other contingency. It’s okay to say this outright in your negotiation.

Step 4: Communicate it!

Now you put your shiny new well-articulated desires into practice! This could be in any number of ways, but here’s a framework if it’s helpful:

“To make me feel [specific emotion], I need [sensory/relational/narrative context]. What tends to work is [primary patterns you discovered], especially when [meaning/undertone].”

For example, I might say…

To make me feel humiliated, I need to be turned into someone who isn’t the way I’d want You to see me, and I need to be laughed at for it. What tends to work is something being done to me physically or being commanded to take actions I find embarrassing, followed by laughter and verbal degradation — especially when it’s delivered like You find my shame entertaining and like this is the most use I could possibly have. For this to feel erotic instead of erosive, I need it to not impact Your usual level of physical affection toward me, even if it’s framed as happening for a reason which is different than usual.”

(And heyyyy, if you need a reason to practice getting your final statement here out in the open… feel free to link this writing to your person along with some kind of “thought I’d try this just for funsies, here’s what I came up with”! Jus’ saying, happy to be your bold ESM moves excuse 👀)

What if the scene still doesn’t feel quite right?

Sometimes, everyone will do everything “right” and it still won’t hit the way you thought it would. The “close but not quite” problem is actually incredibly valuable here, though. It helps you to determine the boundaries around making your desires come true more precisely. “Oh, I thought I wanted to feel worthless, but what I actually needed was to feel worthless in this specific way, and when they made me feel worthless in that other way, it just felt bad.”

You might ask yourself questions like:

  • Which dial was off (e.g., meaning, intensity, context)? Which ones weren’t?
  • If we keep these actions or words but flip tone, does it become right?
  • Was the meaning right, but the tone off?
  • Did something about the relationship context shift recently? (Trust level, recent conflict, life stress)
  • Did I need something different before or after?
  • What would have shifted it from “close” to “yes, that”?
  • Do I need to add this to my explicit boundaries, or was it just about calibration?

And then you know. And then you can communicate it before next time.

For those who desire it, emotional S/m can be some of the most intense, intimate, potentially even transformative play there is. It’s also some of the riskiest, precisely because we’re working with elements that can’t be cleanly removed once introduced. There are plenty of important considerations as far as whether its risks are ones you’re willing to take.

But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it. It just means we owe it to ourselves and our partners to discuss it as skillfully and as well-informed as possible.

Learning to reverse-engineer desires is one of the most important skills I’ve developed as a bottom. It won’t eliminate all risk. Nothing can. But it will dramatically reduce the chances of these desires being knowable — to yourself, and to your partners. Your desires are valid. And the more you can turn “I want to feel […]” into something specific—the more you can translate vague wants into concrete, context-driven asks—the closer you get to bringing them to life.


Want to join in on the conversation? You can find the original Fetlife version of this writing—and the comment section—by clicking here.
Posted by vahavta