vahavta does research

Jan

2024

So you want to DECREASE your pain tolerance…

Major nerdery ahead. You’ve been warned.

If you’ve been around for a bit, it won’t be much of a surprise to you that I’m frequently asked how to increase pain tolerance – that is, how to increase endurance and *decrease* the kind of sensitivities that require one to disengage from a scene before one is ready. In fact, I teach these coping mechanisms at this point. But recently, @BlackBoxOnFet asked me about ways to decrease pain tolerance — and while it’s not the first time I’ve been asked, that one’s definitely a bit rarer.

It’s something I think about sometimes myself. I am a masochist in the sense that consensually-provided acute pain often actually feels like pleasure to me, but I also enjoy suffering as service, something that I can’t do when I’m enjoying everything that’s happening to me. (My tolerance and simultaneous desire for suffering is part of why I love emotional S/m so much.) People might also want to decrease their pain tolerance because they are recognizing that in an effort to hurt more, their play is getting more dangerous than they’d like (or than their partner is okay with). And having a high pain tolerance is not without its risks, either — biologically, pain exists to warn us that something is wrong, and when we are used to ignoring pain, we may be less likely to notice signs of trouble that require urgent adjustments or treatments — so there may be safety *benefits* to decreasing tolerance in some cases.

Still, decreasing pain tolerance could be a tricky, dangerous game with big ethical implications. So let me be clearer than ever: consent is paramount. If you are a top, please do not engage in any of the following without your bottom requesting you to or other intensive negotiation. Without active initiative of the masochist, this is something that could result in anything from distrust to loss of self-esteem to an increase of sensitivity to chronic pains that that person hasn’t told you about, reducing their quality-of-life. So please understand this is but one simple blog post of ideas. Actively implementing them is an undertaking that should come with careful ethical, logistical, and end results-based consideration.

Method One: Changes to the Play Itself

This came as no surprise to me, but research confirms that pain is less well-tolerated when it is A) unexpected or B) something that cannot be avoided — something that happens in bondage of some sort. I think of a scene I once had in which I was pulled right out of a shower and zip-tied into a chair, meaning that I was both surprised by the pain to come (versus my usual planning, where I know when a scene will occur and can consider it and prepare mentally) and I was unable to engage in some of my movement-based coping. The feeling of being trapped also can increase fear, which does correlate to a lower tolerance.

Variety is another easy answer that maybe not everyone considers. I don’t just mean between toys that do basically the same thing as each other, though that too, but where on the body something is being inflicted, or what kind of play. I love impact. I love needles. I don’t so much love electricity. Though I’d say that subjectively, much of the impact I’ve engaged in has *hurt* more, I am less able to tolerate even less-painful electricity, partially because it isn’t something I’ve spent as much time getting used to.

Impact on wet skin, anecdotally (and from a bunch of people I’ve talked to as well), has decreased tolerance for me—or at least increased pain intensity (which is a bit different, but I think is still what people are sometimes asking with this).

And finally, there’s simply taking a break… hitting the reset button. Anecdotally, this has looked like anything from a few months to nearly a year in order to make a difference. Time away from intentional pain both recalibrates your body and mind to the sensations, and decreases the “I know what I’m doing; I can handle this” factor (and confidence in your ability to “take” pain absolutely increases your tolerance.)

Method Two: Simply Not Engaging in Tolerance-Increasing Activities

Another approach is consciously choosing not to engage in activities that can increase pain tolerance. Stripping away familiarity creates a more raw and intimate experience with pain and it often also demands a deeper level of self-awareness that’ll benefit you as a bottom in multiple realms. (There are lots of things here that just have to do with “healthy choices increase pain tolerance” and I am 100% NOT advocating you intentionally do the opposite. There are other options.)

Some of the research I share in my pain processing class is relevant here, but in looking at studies for this one, I found a few interesting things I’ll be implementing in my own play. Swearing, for instance, can increase pain tolerance by 33% (Stephens and Robertson, 2020), so purposefully abstaining from this linguistic release might take away that previously-used coping mechanism and make for a lower pain tolerance. Similarly, listening to preferred music has been found to increase pain tolerance (Timmerman et al., 2023). Though I don’t know that *disliked* music will *decrease* your pain tolerance, it’s worth knowing things like this, if a lower pain tolerance is your goal, so that you can purposefully avoid putting that extra buffer around your scenes.

Similarly, one study found that playing an FPS game *increases* pain tolerance as compared to a golf game — this attributed it to the higher arousal (Stephens and Allsop, 2012) — and another one found that it increases it as compared to a racing game, but did *not* attribute it to arousal (Teismann et al, 2014). (CW – this study, should you want to look it up, is about suicidality, but pain tolerance was one of the measures they used. I think it’s a flawed study in a number of ways but the pain thing is interesting to me.) So if you warm up for play with a nice lil game of Apex Legends or GTTOD or Titanfall 2, maybe don’t.

There are probably other safe-ish options here. One study found that the consumption of sweet foods increased pain threshold in adult males (Kakeda et al., 2008), so perhaps that falls under the “avoid this because it’ll give a buffer” category. And though this isn’t part of this category exactly, another study I found interesting gathered that “extended exposure to palatable food followed by abstinence from it induced a significant change in pain perception, leading to increased pain sensitivity” (Cifani et al., 2020), where palatable meant food that was high in sugar, fat, and salt — but this study was done in rats sooo I have no idea if it would replicate (and any kind of diet control has inherent risks that can be quite major, depending.)

Method Three: Things that Require Extreme Caution

There are a lot of those “research shows this increases pain tolerance things” that I would never, ever, ever recommend you purposefully engage in denying yourself/your bottom for a whole variety of reasons and will not mention here. But there are other things that could be done ethically and with fewer possible health risks. Still, note that these do have an increased level of risk, so once more… let this be a bottom-led initiative, and consider your risk profile very carefully.

Things in this category might include playing with less warm-up, which can intensify the impact of sudden, hard hits. But let me emphasize here that I’m talking about neglecting to warm-up with toys, not neglecting to warm up your body. It remains paramount to joint health that you bring your body through its full range of motion in order to both check in with yourself and your body awareness and to ensure that you are never making a sharp, sudden movement in a scene for the first time that day, increasing the chance of pulled tendons and the like.

Negative moods are also correlated with decreased pain tolerance (Tang et al., 2008), and one could intentionally choose to place scenes at these times by negotiating ahead of time. However, depending on the individual and the cause of the mood, these factors may also reduce the ability to accurately judge a situation and potentially leading to consent issues or trauma responses — or to a dependency on using kink to cope, rather than actually dealing with and managing your negative emotions. If you are a bottom, be sure that you discuss these with your top and get their consent just the same as they should be doing when it comes to things that’d affect you, as they may not be comfortable with these possibilities and their implications.

The last thing I’ll put here is that simply receiving threatening information about impending pain can decrease tolerance (Jackson et al., 2010). This could take the form of a top exaggerating, or telling the bottom about real risks without how likely they are. I know some might not see this as one of the “caution” options. However, I also strongly believe in bottoming education and that masochists must remain educated about the type of pain play they’re engaging in so that they can accurately judge if it’s within their risk profile and evaluate warning signs in the moment, so I wouldn’t personally recommend this with any kind of new partner. Research every new thing you try just as much as you expect your top to — otherwise, you have no way of verifying that said top actually did do this research and learn what they needed to to keep you safe.

Method Four: Mind Tricks

And that brings me to the realm of mind tricks — mindfucks, if you prefer — intentional manipulations that do require careful negotiation and enthusiastic consent, as they often take the same form as gaslighting. And hey, I’m into that, but if you don’t take caution here, you could destroy trust in a relationship (or at all) or induce a number of other negative psychological consequences.

The most obvious of these, to me, is hypnosis. I’ve recently had some of the most terrifying scenes of my life in this realm. It also has fucked with me in a number of ways. I love it; don’t do it without talking to far more experienced hypnosis bottoms (and tops!) than I about the challenges, methods, and risks.

There’s also the option of using conditioning — associating something you want to be more painful with a known phobia or perceived threat. Be careful, because conditioning is… well… effective. While fear of pain does decrease tolerance to that pain, that might not stay in the play-only realm, and we do need to be able to accept some amount of pain in our daily lives.

Finally is a fun one I learned about from @Neuromancer28: complimenting someone right before hurting them makes it hurt more. I haven’t tried this myself, buuuuut I did let my Owner know about it today so I imagine I’ll be testing it soon, heh. There’s incentive here for sadists to build their bottoms up, in general, and that’s the one thing in this list I think that sadists should feel totally free to go for without negotiation, heh. Better self-esteem, in general, seems to be linked to a decreased pain tolerance (Hooley et al., 2010). That citation is listed in this amazing list of Neuromancer28’s on Fetlife, along with many other pieces of interesting pain tolerance research that will likely be of interest to you if you’ve been liking this writing so far. He’s my go-to when it comes to science-backed kink stuff and also just generally awesome.

So to my friend who asked and anyone else, those are my thoughts. Thanks for the prompt. It was a great way to look at some more recent research and update the class, and I read all sorts of things that I’ve found really interesting (like this one, which found that pain tolerance in men goes up after a success and down after a failure, but the opposite is true in women) and got to really nerd out over here. (Goldberg et al., 2000).

Once more, every method discussed should only be employed with full consent and a thorough evaluation of associated risks — but there are very valid reasons bottoms may want to reduce pain tolerance for a period of time, and if that’s you, maybe there’s something new to try here. For those more interested in the opposite (or those looking to learn more about things that increase tolerance to make use of in my second method group here), I hope I’ll see you at “Make Me a Masochist: Changing Your Relationship with Pain” at some point in the future.

But what about you? Do you have any safe-ish methods to reduce pain tolerance to share?
Join the conversation in the comments on Fetlife!

Jan

2024

Analysis: Why Emotional S/m?

I like information. I like gathering it and I like looking for patterns. I do these things for personal enjoyment, to better plan my writings and classes, and to share something that maybe others find of value. I have done this before with Defining CNC and Defining Edge Play. Now, I’ve changed from a what to a why.

Both in order to answer a question a friend asked and to help refine my Negotiation and Communication for Emotional S/m class, I recently asked for responses to “Why do you like emotional sadomasochism?” I received roughly 40 responses, some in the form of comments or writings and some in DM by those who wanted to remain anonymous, and have now identified a few trends.

For the purposes of this writing, ESM refers to emotional sadomasochism. I did not define “emotional S/m” for the respondents, but readers may wish to keep in mind that this is a vast and varied kind of play that could encompass a number of different things. All that being said…

Here are the major themes I found in the answers to “why emotional S/m?”

It makes us feel seen.

The most common phrase in the answers by far (over half included some variation) was along the lines of “emotional S/m makes me feel seen.” I’ll break this further into two terms I saw fairly frequently: authenticity and intimacy. There’s a large overlap in the venn diagram of how these factors were described, so the lines may blur a bit in the discussion below. I think this quote from @mairy helps to illustrate both well:

“It reassures me that my partner sees all my grotesqueries but is attracted to me anyways.”

Authenticity

As in mairy’s quote above and written in some form by a sizable number of others, many who play with emotional S/m prefer to be brought to real “undesirable” emotions or to have actual insecurities come up in play, often feeling that it in some way peels back the layers of the everyday public-facing self to reveal a self that is more “real,” “authentic,” or “complete.” In playing in a way that focuses on these self-perceived negative traits—in mairy’s description, “grotesqueries”—their play partners see them in a way others never do.

Intimacy

Intimacy, named by over a third of all answers total, further breaks down into two more categories of its own.

The first is represented by that second half of mairy’s quote: intimacy can be the closeness that comes from knowing one party still accepts, likes, is attracted to, or otherwise wants to be around the other after the authentic self has been revealed. This goes for the bottom-to-top direction too: Tops feel intimacy both in the honor of the bottoms showing them their true selves and in their cruel sides being accepted and desired.

The second way intimacy was discussed was phrased more or less as a prerequisite, or else, a quality of which good ESM scenes are a proof: the idea that creating an effective emotional response may necessitate a deep, intimate knowledge or understanding of the other party. It may simply be a requirement for ESM to happen, and/or good ESM can be the evidence of this deep knowledge that makes non-ESM connections feel more possible:

“Someone who knows how to emotionally hurt also makes me feel seen, and feeling seen makes me feel safe and makes me feel cared about/loved. If someone knows how to hurt me in precisely the ways they want, they’re demonstrating that they are unlikely to hurt me accidentally in ways that they don’t want.” – @ACatNamedSam

It helps us explore ourselves.

This is a big category, as I’m including many different items from the coding in it. There were a fair number of topics that came up a non-zero amount yet not often enough to be their own major category. These subtopics, bolded where they appear below, seem to me to fit under a larger theme: engaging in emotional S/m allows for a deep exploration of the self.

This is a fairly wide umbrella. For one grouping under it, ESM is a way to experience feelings they likely wouldn’t otherwise and to explore the full range of the human experience (put a pin in this). This overlapped with “feeling seen” in some cases, with discussions of having the full range of ones’ emotions brought out by a partner therein validating that all those emotions are acceptable and safe to show.

Another group spoke of ESM as a way to—as @Venerant put it—calibrate their emotional scales. By engaging in darker emotions in play, they are able to better evaluate emotions they experience elsewhere in life. This may happen in a number of different ways:

“Sometimes the relief comes from my negative perceptions being affirmed and the resulting pain, and sometimes the relief comes from recognizing the absurdity of my perceptions having heard them from someone else, and thus letting them go.” – @InquisitiveElle

“Human brains don’t judge by how objectively good things are–they judge how good they are *relative to other times.* I appreciate all of my life more if I get thrown down into a hole and feel how far I have to climb/be pulled back up, and doing this in the controlled setting of emotional sadism is healthier than getting into actual life trouble just for the sake of contrast.” -@SuspendDIsbelief

This calibration also can be related to the matter of overcoming: getting through a trying ESM experience helps some bottoms trust that they can also get through trying daily life experiences. An anonymous top likewise spoke of how being the architect of ESM scenes provided this feeling, saying “When I am also the demon, I know my own don’t stand a chance.”

@sweetblackangel also brought up the language of personal demons, stating that ESM offers “a way to drag my demons out into the light and actually work with them instead of suppress them. Turns out, they are a lot less scary after play.” Working with negative emotions once they’ve been brought to the surface was an element worth naming for a number of respondents, in terms like “shadow work,” “processing,” and so forth.

In these ways and others—while ESM is not therapy—engaging in ESM can be therapeutic. That is, many find it somehow soothing, informative, or otherwise helpful to fostering mental health. ESM was referred to as “a controlled setting” in which they could feel negative feelings that they might be drawn to or even benefit from in some way, experience release/catharsis, and become less likely to self-sabotage in relationship with others.

“I don’t trust [times in my life when things are good] […] and I end up having urges to sabotage good things just to prove to myself that I’m still in reality and that I still can recover if things go wrong. If I’m in a place where ESM play is on the table, I can more effectively resist that urge, essentially by telling myself that I don’t need to do that work and can trust the sadist to do it for me next time we’re together.” – @Chayla

And though this decidedly is not the case for all, for some, the draw to ESM is one some players reference as stemming in some way from past traumas, intentionally and/or innately. This is another venn diagram overlap area: a few brought this up in terms of feeling that trauma is “fully seen” by a partner, as well as with a final subcategory here.

Though it is worth saying that not all think of their societally-engrained emotional beliefs as a kind of trauma, a number of respondents mentioned the way ESM allows feelings that sociopolitical, cultural, or familial norms did/do not. (Ouch! What was that? Oh, that’s that pin I stuck in earlier, right around how ESM gives some the experiences of emotions they don’t otherwise get to feel.) Bottoms assigned male at birth pointed to the vulnerability they can feel in ESM as something they don’t feel allowed in daily life, and tops assigned female at birth spoke about the freedom to be “powerful,” “cold-hearted,” “selfish,” and other similar words.

“The reason that I only top for distress and not pleasure (even though they can achieve similar ends) is probably influenced by my violent allergic reaction to society telling me that partnered happiness is found through being pleasing to my (male) partners. At this point in my life, the idea of “pleasing” is revolting.” -@owlfinch

“I am invited to explore emotions that I have been taught are wrong. Things around gender, sexuality, power. I am on some level accepted and affirmed as a whole person with flaws and instabilities and trivial obsessions – and this makes me feel powerful, alive, loved. Though I am very emotionally sadistic, I ultimately find many scenes sadomasochistic because I allow the bottom/sub to view parts of me i have been taught are problems. I mean this both in a general Western Culture way, but also in the Sex Culture way.” – @GetsCarriedAway

“Hurting for someone gives me space to feel feelings I wasn’t allowed to feel when I was younger. I’ve been managing and carefully controlling my emotions my entire life, and it’s incredibly difficult for me to put those guards down. Emotional sadism is someone forcibly tearing those walls down and then putting the negative emotions inside. And that’s safe. If I’m sad because someone wanted me to be, then that isn’t a failure to manage my emotions.” – @ACatNamedSam

It’s hot.

When I first asked this question elsewhere, a very lovely kinky brain scientist told me that it’s fairly simple why people are attracted to this: arousal, plain and simple. Now, while arousal is not a 1:1 connection to “that’s hot,” this meaning of arousal was acknowledged directly by at least a third of participants. There were also several “I don’t know why I like it; I just do” type answers that I didn’t include in this count, but that I suspect meant the same thing, and perhaps responding to the question at all even implies this answer (but perhaps not, so I did do a formal count).

What’s hot about ESM for respondents came from fantasies, from narrative, or from above-listed reasons (such as intimacy) and others being turn-ons themselves. A small but not insignificant number of respondents also mentioned engaging in ESM because the people they like are into it.

Tops were slightly more forthcoming with “it’s just hot” answers. Almost all of them mentioned power. Notably, two switches said that emotional sadism is rooted in sexuality for them, while emotional masochism is not.

Finally, some stated that ESM is something they can engage in even with bodily limitations from illness, disability, or daily life requirements: it is at least to some extent a more practical approach to our sadomasochism.

In all the answers, those three themes were the most all-encompassing. However, there is one last thing that did come up enough that I think it’s worth sharing:

“I deserve it.”

This was, truth be told, only said a few times. All the same, it’s the complication of this statement which makes it the perfect one to end on: although it is true that some who play with ESM have self-conceptions that align with the play, there’s also something here that I always try to highlight in my classes: *you deserve to seek out consensual experiences that are as fucked up as you desire them to be.* Some participants said this outright about themselves, and I am saying it outright here: Those who enjoy ESM deserve to have it with the consenting partners of their dreams.

And so do you, if you’re nodding along with any of this. I hope that you get the chance.

Housekeeping/Interesting things.

Please note that ESM is also edge play for many of us. I suggest you do not engage in it without thorough consideration. I [have a list of questions bottoms could look at here](https://fetlife.com/users/3055227/posts/5489251),

I did not include comments to the writings others posted in response to me if they did not also comment to me directly—no one’s answers were included in the analysis if they were not given specifically to me for that reason. If you’re interested in these writings (which are wonderful!) and the other responses, you can read the “raw data” on Fetlife here. Should you want to join in on the conversation in the comments of my writings, you can find the original Fetlife post of this one here.

The majority of the responses were from bottoms, though not all. Many were from switches. Somewhat surprisingly to me, nearly all of the complete tops who responded chose to do so anonymously. I just found this interesting and wanted to share. Responses quoted are no better or worse than those not quoted. They were just the right quotes for what I was trying to say

Want to be included in future research? I do post about things like this on Fet, but my substack is the best way to ensure you get the questions when I send them out.

Jan

2024

Why Younger Kinksters Don’t Attend Your Venue

My brother quit his job last week after five years at the same company. He loves what he does—he’s in human health services, and the families are great—but he’s been pretty mistreated. His really reasonable complaints have been brushed off, and he was often berated for things not his responsibility. He stayed as long as he could stand it, but when he started to look for somewhere else to work a month ago, he found out his skills are incredibly in demand. He got three job offers, all at least double his current salary—and so he quit.

I often hear my and younger generations criticized for… well, for a lot. But a big one is a “lack of loyalty”. I’ve seen it said we have “no sense of what it means to have a career with a business” and that we’re just willing to pick up and job-hop whenever. I don’t think that’s untrue. But the thing is, it isn’t about a lack of loyalty at all. It’s about wanting to be valued and treated well.

When my brother sent in his notice, the company announced the closure of that branch the next day. Turns out, he was the only reason they were sticking around in that area. Which begs the question, I think: why weren’t they better to him? Why would he stick around? Of course his complaints not being addressed would eventually cause him to leave. And this company decided they’d rather cut services and jobs for a bunch of people than just listen to him. They just… let it die. And let his subordinates blame him, of course.

I see the same thing happening in kink. I’ve been around seven years now, and it seems like any time a venue shuts down due to low attendance, there’s an outcry about how the younger generations caused this. They just don’t care about their community space. They just don’t want to give back and build something good the way people used to. They need to show up for everyone. It’s their fault, and other finger-wagging.

And I think every time… but we do. We do care about community, very much. We do want to give back. We’ve tried to build something good. We’ve been cut down at every turn.

So why would we be loyal? Why would we keep trying with those venues who say it’s a “community space” but don’t value us as community members? Why wouldn’t we go to the places that will instead?

Methodology and disclaimers

Over the last few days, I’ve reached out here, on Twitter, and on Instagram to get personal accounts from those in the Millennial and Gen-Z age ranges on why they no longer go to venues they see as primarily an older crowd. I got over forty answers to this, from people who span a range of genders, ages, and kink roles. This isn’t about one specific place—the responses came from coast-to-coast in the US, as well as a few from Canada and overseas—but they in many ways echoed each other. The reasons we stop showing up? They’re the same reasons. The ways we’ve felt mistreated? They’re identifiable. And none of it is about a lack of willingness to give back.

I’ve compiled the most common themes in these stories below—many overlap—and will mention a few of the important other one-off answers at the end. Anything in quotes is directly from an answer, though bolding may be mine. As this is a note that is sort of arranged as a letter informing older venues of why they’re really lacking in youth attendance, I may use “you” to refer to those spaces, and “we” to refer to people in my age group.

When I posted this, I also got a few unsolicited messages from self-identified Boomer friends (no, no Gen X-ers, actually) who felt they knew the answer to my question and wanted to give their input. They told me how my generation is entitled—“no offense”—and about the trends they’ve seen. But I’m an open-minded little ethnographer so where relevant, I’ve included these answers as well.

I initially expected this writing to be about public venues dying in favor of private home parties, but that isn’t what ended up happening. To this end, “the owner” and “management” should be seen as interchangeable with “host,” “party-thrower,” or whatever version of that fits best.

Finally, though I don’t mention it every time, many of my conversations included an acknowledgment that these issues can happen anywhere, including majority-younger spaces. However, people seemed to agree that they’re much more likely to occur at the older ones.

We don’t feel like our safety will be protected.

“If I avoid an event, it is […] because the event has utterly failed to create a space that feels safe (by failing to exclude toxic or violent individuals)”

Over 85% of the answers I received included some semblance of the above theme. Their failing venues, people told me, were places with “a rep as a rapey space where newbies get preyed on”, where consent wasn’t really valued by the main crowd and violations weren’t handled by the management. 1 in 4 of these answers also included that they felt (or had first-hand experience that) they would personally be attacked and shunned if they were hurt and spoke about it. “No drama” policies were mentioned often.

Sometimes, there were explicit issues with the attendees’ ideas surrounding consent:

“An older Kinkster, apparently a community leader, lectured the crowd about how they didn’t believe in long term abuse or domestic violence. If you stay, you’re consenting and the result is a D/s dynamic, negotiated by your continued presence. Absolutely no one argued.”

The bigger issue, however, was there being no established protocol for reporting consent violations. Since there was nothing in place to follow if a friend of the management violated consent, there was no trust any action would be taken at all.

“The community leader assured us that we could tell them if we were sexually assaulted, but that no one had ever complained of a sexual assault before, because they were so safe. It wasn’t until after I was sexually assaulted that I realized how uncomfortable it would be to be the first drama causer ever who complained about a sexual assault.”

“When I asked what would be done if my assaulter RSVPed, I was told that the venue was large enough that *I* could avoid *them*, and that the owner would use “gut feeling” to deal with any issues arising.”

“Somebody was raped in a private room and the management said that unless there was a witness, they couldn’t do anything. Of course they could do something! It’s their place!”

“No sexual assault policy had been mentioned, so I reluctantly headed towards the community leader, trying to decide whether to tell them about a sexual assault I had experienced a few minutes before, wondering if they’d believe me. When I saw they were too busy having sex to be bothered, and I knew of no one else available to get feedback like this, I gave up and just left.”

The responses also recognized that this is a difficult thing to navigate and that it isn’t necessarily even an age specific problem. “I get that the volunteer community leaders aren’t at fault for this problem,” someone said about an event they used to attend. “I feel for them.” But, multiple people told me, the idea of a “community protected” venue left a bad taste in their mouths. “It doesn’t make me feel safe or valued, in hindsight, being a human shield against strangers’ stalkers multiple times.”

Additionally, people told me they don’t feel their futures are safe when around these venues, with five accounts of people believing they were being photographed while in a dungeon. One person told me “a community leader tried to pressure us into putting face pictures onto our profile, insisting our bosses wouldn’t care if they found them”, and someone else spoke of the owner of a venue alluding to [the younger person’s] sex life when running into them at their restaurant job.

Perhaps this is universal. This same issue is actually something one Boomer told me is an issue with us:

“Kink still isn’t acceptable in most custody cases, divorce cases, work related cases, and some family cases. But the prevalence of people who don’t appreciate that fact has risen. […] The newbies who were more tasters than kinky started making it party central or a casual trial place. […] I really started to get scared when they brought in a much more casual attitude toward discretion.”

Ironically, I discovered while writing this that a majority-older venue local to me has been cavalier with the face photos of many, though I believe this to be primarily a technology/security knowledge issue and not a malicious one (though carrying no less risk).

We experience a blatant disregard for boundaries, negotiation, and our own agency and knowledge.

What did come out as an age specific problem was a blatant disregard for the agency of a young person (most often someone femme-of-center) when it came to their bodies and their kinks at all.

“I don’t want to be in a space where people just come and put their hands on you” or some semblance of that statement was in almost ¾ of my Millenial + Gen-Z answers.

Some of the stories I found absolutely horrifying, though not unexpected:

“My partner shared [a] possible kink. The community leader proceeded to yell out to a random person who shared this possible kink with my partner and told them loudly what they had in common (something extremely vulnerable for my partner to admit aloud). While my partner was occupied with the resulting more intimate than intended conversation with a complete stranger, the event leader asked me if they could try something with me. Before I could answer, they were behind me running sharp nail points over my back. They told me this was a mind fuck because I didn’t know if it was a knife. […] They pulled out a furry thing and asked me to hold out my hand. I wasn’t informed about what could be under a furry thing then. I was still very new to this. Something soft seemed harmless enough. Sensation play, right? I didn’t want to piss this person off who knew where I worked now. I was surprised to feel needles pricking my skin. I wondered who else’s blood I might have just exposed myself to. Did the needles break my skin? No blood, just red marks, but I still felt very uncomfortable and creeped out. Did I need an STI test? I wasn’t sure.”

The people who told me these stories did believe this had to do with a perception from older people of why young people are in the scene in the first place, as well as a perceived “innate knowledge of what [we] want by the older-and-wiser Boomer crowd.” Though not always in terms of consent and boundary violations, the older-and-wiser assumption came up in over half of the answers I received.

“When I first joined, many looked at me, spoke […] as if I’m not here for anything other than reckless fucking. […] A lot of men at my first event held me in a way that I was absolutely uncomfortable with at the age of 18.”

“It seemed as if they believed age automatically equaled wisdom, and therefore I was devoid of any, but my mentor spoke of his mentor groping whatever rope bottom came his way as if it was some hilarious thing.”

“I stopped going to the Power Exchange group stuff because it was 100% cis-het male dom run and they kept mansplaining our kink to us, talking down to the femme organizers, and telling us we would “pick a side because switchiness wasn’t real.””

“It was really hard for me to go to events at specific venues because the majority of people who go have an unspoken air of contempt for me, and it makes me feel out of place. I feel awkward, like a little child. I get it, I’m inexperienced, and I’m young. But I believe we all were this age once, right? […] I got, and still get the “you’re too young to know this” thing.”

A Boomer respondent let me know that they think the younger crowd has “an unrealistic idea that they can just come and not participate” and that they are “too sensitive about permission for everything in a sexual space.” They did not respond when I asked for more information on this statement. They and another Boomer both mentioned they believe the youth have a paranoia over something that’s not an issue.

The “old guard” community is worrisome to us.

A Boomer said: “VERY few younger folks are interested in that lifestyle. That lifestyle is all about service/honor/and commitment. Something that younger generation hasn’t developed an appreciation for yet.”

Millenial and Gen-Zers said:

“When someone tells me they’re “old guard”, I know immediately that they’re about to treat me like meat.

[Assaulters don’t get banned, and] “some of why they might still be allowed to go could be the association with the “old guard” mentality”

“The old guard is incredibly rude to any dynamic that doesn’t look like male/female M/s.”

“I don’t need to call anyone by a title whether they “earned” it or not. That is an expectation in Old Guard mentality that needs to be gone away with. There should be no expectation of hierarchy within kink as a whole.”

“Old guard kinksters are people who I know will never protect me.”

Our scenes get interrupted.

“There’s no universe where I’m going drive an hour and pay money only for a microcelebrity with a following of 10ish to interrupt my scenes needlessly.”

A number of stories pointed to experiences of basic scene etiquette being ignored both by attendees and by venue management. Though not in every case—the above answerer is male—these most often came from female and femme tops.

“I was mistreated, disrespected, and patronized as a young femme top. [..] It got so bad I literally couldn’t do a scene without being interrupted and “corrected” by DMs/random strangers. That’s really why I stopped going. It was super upsetting to my bottoms.”

“A male rigger my height and weight could have his scene entirely left alone, but people would literally step into mine and put their hands on my rope and even my bottom to lift them. They said I was “too tiny” and that I needed the help.”

“As a female topping another female, my play was not taken seriously. Men would gather and shout out suggestions of where I should hit my bottom next, or ask if they could have a turn. Or they’d tell me after what I should do next time. This included DMs. […] It was as if we were giggling sorority girls, not people having a serious power exchange. I never saw this happen with a male top.”

We only exist to be other people’s fetishes.

“There are perfectly nontoxic (usually older) attendees who have a real talent for making either me or my partner feel like a piece of meat by virtue of existing in their presence. That might be nice, if only they could hold off for long enough to say hi, and negotiate something that targeted that more deliberately.”

In addition to the stories in the last section—which I think in many ways aligns with this—I got both direct and subtler accounts of younger people being fetishized. In addition to the personal experience accounts below, there were a handful of stories of youth being used as an advertising factor, where potential attendees are told in visible online spaces that management will find them a “cute young toy”, or the presence of college-aged kinksters was discussed in event descriptions.

Indirect ways people saw themselves as fetishized at majority-older events included:

”Private and vetted” [meant] any girl got a link no questions asked but dudes needed references.”
“They welcomed 2 girls together, but 2 guys would never be seen”
“If the runner who was also the event photographer didn’t want to fuck you they would never take your photo at the event”
“It seemed to be expected that since we were ‘unattached’ bottoms, we would play with their doms.”

Fetishizing things younger kinksters told me were said to their face include:

“I’ve never been with an Asian before.”
“Girls your age like to experiment, but it’s just because they haven’t experienced what an older man can do.”
“It’s good to see bodies like yours here. Your tits are where they should be!”

While I haven’t had this conversation, I think that many of the older kinksters doing this may genuinely think they’re complimenting us. It seems to be part of the perceived over-sensitivity culture. The issue is that when you turn us into advertising, we get the message that you prioritize your own generation’s opportunity to play with young bodies over the young folks’ autonomy.

One of my Boomer responses “the youth of today are more “me oriented” Whats [sic] in this for me?” (He did acknowledge that this was once said about his generation.) Ironically, a common thing keeping us away is that we feel these older generations put themselves and their sexual desires above ours.

We are told we aren’t driven to be a part of the community, but when we are in community, we are not treated like a part of it—we are treated like something for it.

Our identities themselves aren’t respected.

I expected a number of responses would have to do with a lack of willingness from older generations to accept nonbinary pronouns or some expressions of sexuality, but what I wasn’t prepared for was the number mentioning casual (or aggressive) use of the f-slur (and not in a spirit of reclamation). Being made to feel unwelcome as a minority in gender, sexuality, race, and ability were all brought up multiple times.

It doesn’t seem from the answers I got that we necessarily expect immediate total understanding and acceptance, but we do want leaders who will do the work required to figure it out.

“I was there to learn, but was constantly held directly responsible for educating about my identities and/or my partner’s identities. […] I’m here for a break, selfish as that may be.”

When we do try and make things better, we’re met with terrible responses.

And this brings be back to the issue at the beginning. We’re trying. We try to bring up problems, and often suggest solutions. We are then turned away, laughed at, or ignored. “If we complain, we’re snowflakes obsessed with identity politics” was a common theme. I firmly believe that the number one thing that majority-older spaces can do to get younger people in is to show they’re willing to change with their communities. People mentioned how often their local older leaders make fools of themselves when presented with new ideas:

“They give me a laundry list of excuses why they can’t/don’t/won’t. […] Which tells me that frankly, they don’t want to, and they genuinely don’t care. If they did they would take the criticism graciously and implement the solutions. They want to put on airs as if they do and advertise as if they do, but the bottom line fact of the matter is that: they don’t.”

This is where I expect to get the most backlash, because I know how this will be responded to: we don’t agree with their politics (of wanting to be accepted). We don’t agree with their idea of what being violated is. We don’t agree with language changing. Why should we have to? Why do we have to respond nicely and take these suggestions we don’t agree with?

And the answer is, you don’t. But I think it’s telling that companies like Starbucks and Coca-Cola are now featuring indicators of their acceptance of NB identities and the like in their advertising. Don’t get me wrong—it is advertising. But it is an important sign that some of the biggest companies out there have decided that the money of the people who appreciate these things is worth more than the money of those who are against it. If the money and attendance of young people is important to your space, this is important to consider.

Conclusions

“I just can’t find enough reasons to participate. Maybe if the cost wasn’t so high, or I was guaranteed to get something out of it, or the people were genuine, or the leaders cared about more the community than themselves, I would come back.”

Something that is true about younger people—in jobs and in kink—is that we have learned to take care of ourselves. Something else is that a lot of us are very busy. Or we live far. Or we’re ill. Or we have too much student debt and a limited social budget. And that isn’t the fault of older people.

But what it means—at least for me–is you can’t give me any opportunity to say no. I can play at home without getting interrupted, so why would I go to a venue where I know the interruption is likely to happen? I have my own community that supports me and my kinky pursuits, who knows me and loves me, so why would I go somewhere that only sees me as eye candy?

And people learn from experience, and repeated experiences do turn into (informed) biases. And that’s where you come in, older venues who are looking to increase your younger attendance.

Here are our experiences. You own your own spaces, and you have a right to do whatever you want with them, to make the changes and the rules and the culture you’re happiest with. So are you going to do it in a way that makes us want to attend? Or would you prefer to just let it die?

I offer my utmost gratitude to all who participated in this. Should you want to join in on the conversation in the comments of my writings, you can find the original Fetlife post of this one here.

If you wish to be a part of future “research,” be sure to subscribe to my substack. I do also post calls for responses on Fetlife several times before I finalize my posts.

Jan

2024

In Search of a Definition of Edge Play

“You know that meme from The Lion King, where Mufasa is showing Simba his realm? “What’s that shadowy place over there?” Well, that shadowy place is where edgeplay happens.”

A bit ago, I asked for definitions of edge-play. Like with the definitions of CNC, I’ve tried to compile them and look for some trends to see if edge play can be used as a universally understood term.

What is edge play as a concept?

Point of agreement: It pushes limits
Most people stated edge play pushed limits, and most of those named those of the participants. Therefore, the majority consider edge play to be highly individual. Responses included:

“play that is on a border (either nerve-making, risk taking, or basically outside of the comfort zone) for at least one, if not all, of the participants. Since everyone’s comfort borders are widely different, what some people consider playing on the edge may seem mundane or pedestrian to others”
“play at your own personal limit which has intent to push those boundaries”
“whatever the participants think is near the limit of what they think is acceptable risk.”

Point of confusion: It has a heightened risk of harm
It seemed generally agreed that edge play means that there is a chance of some form of harm—not all specified, but about half as many of as those who said physical harm also said emotional harm. Legal risk (eg in the case of extreme exhibitionism) got a mention as well. Several noted that the risk of harm may be to the bottom or to the top.

Given that these answers were so common, I tried to push people to give me a bit more. I wanted to know how much risk, and what the “common level of acceptable risk” even was. For example, when presented with the answer of edge play including risk of “immediate and irreparable damage or death,” I tried to ask folks if slapping then counts as edge play since it can in rare cases permanently burst eardrums or detach corneas (note: I Love slapping; I’m not trying to scare you away from slapping. Simply making a point.) Still, I couldn’t really get answers for this besides just that edge play is simply riskier than what “most kinksters” consider normal. I also couldn’t get an answer as to what most kinksters consider normal, besides “whatever people consider the norm.” One answer did quantify as a “50/50 shot of either being enjoyable, or causing/resulting in some sort of psychological or emotional harm.” (I have a feeling this kinkster might have meant to include physical, but it was not technically in the definition.)

Point of contention: how is harm caused
Many answers did refer to edge play requiring an experienced player, but two definitions considered playing with an inexperienced person to be edge play. Technically speaking, this *would* seem to fit the definition of a heightened risk. These statements also received arguments back, comparing it to blaming a snake for biting when you step on it.

One answer stated that in some edge play, notable and irrepairable harm may be intended, and that scars and the like “aren’t a bug, they’re a feature.”

Point of contention: knowledge of risk
Some answers included things such as

“It’s something you need to go into with a total acceptance and understanding of what can go wrong and there are plans in place just in case the worst happens.”

whereas others stated that part of what qualifies something as edge play is the *lack* of ability to fully understand what can go wrong and that the risks *can’t* be well managed, garnering definitions as

“this might become something we don’t want it to be”

and

“I do not think that I will be physically or emotionally “permanently damaged” by having to listen to {emotionally triggering music} during play. On the other hand, I don’t know WHAT it will do.”

What is edge play, specifically?

These answers ranged from the abstract

“Play that would be beyond the hard limits of most kinksters”
“play that objectively requires special precautions”
“Things that “if I were writing about, I would place a content warning”
Scenes that “are the focus of kinkshaming”

to the more concrete. Specific kinks named one or more times—though I don’t believe anyone naming these meant there aren’t others—were fire play, branding, “anything involving blood,” play involving bodily fluids, sutures, cutting, sharp metal or glass, stun guns, take-down play, abduction play, interrogation, breathplay, waterboarding, rape play, race play, public exhibitionism, humiliation/degradation/fear, and prolonged scenes that go beyond exhaustion.

Why do it?

These are always my favorite definitions. Answers here included…

“The goal may be to overcome some barriers that players want to face or to feel strong or to experience a deep trust bond.”
“It’s the thrill of danger, challenging bodily harm and cheating death (that bastard).”
“it’s like looking over a precipace. You feel your stomach drop, you feel fear, you feel like you have a very tenuous grasp on your sanity. It’s something that, if you let go, it could be life ending or disfiguring or cause scarring, both internally in your gray matter, and externally. It’s a moment of danger. It’s a moment you look inward and say, “Come get some.” Then you jump.”

Conclusions

This study resulted in a lot less variety than the CNC one; the only conflicts were really on whether or not playing with an inexperienced person = edge play and whether edge play is something requiring knowledge of all risks or something where that is impossible.

It does seem to me “edge play” is a term that can be pretty universally used to mean “heightened risk”. What seems less clear is where this threshold is. Risk of what? Heightened for whom? How much risk? I imagine that were we to define this further, many people might have to reclarify what they consider to be edge play (see my slapping example from before).

It is my own belief that pretty much anything we do carries at least some level of irreparable damage of some form. I can think of nothing in BDSM that does not. For me, edge play is a useless term for that reason. Anecdotally speaking, I have actually personally heard of many more injuries from things people consider more on the vanilla 50 shades-y side of things (such as simple bedroom bondage, slapping, and flogging), simply because people assume they are easy/simple and don’t think they need to look into how to do what they do or what risks to be prepared for. On the other hand, those I know nailing each other to crosses, suspending with barbed wire, and so forth are—not always, but mostly—probably the safest players I know (despite getting infinite numbers of folks in their photo comments insisting otherwise) because they are practiced, well informed, and generally not fucking around. I’d like to see us start treating all play with the same level of regard we would edge play. Consider: what precautions would you set forth before engaging in what you think is edge play for the first time or with someone new? Vetting the top? Researching risks, or learning how to do it for yourself if you’re a bottom? Creating a contingency plan? Talking to others who have experience engaging it? Something else? Now, ask yourself: is there a good reason you don’t do that for other sorts of play?

As with anything else in what it is we do, bottoms and tops do need to communicate as to their general level of “acceptable risk” and share anything they know about the risks of the activity to the other in order for all players to be fully informed—to the extent that that is ever possible.

Housekeeping

Please note these are quotes taken from some of the definitions. I was not able to include all of them in a logical fashion. Sometimes, multiple quotes may come from one answer. If you’d like, you can read answers in their original form on Fetlife here. Should you want to join in on the conversation in the comments of the analysis, you can find the original Fetlife post of this one here.

If you’d like to be included in future research surveys, please subscribe to my substack, where I’ll send out calls for responses. I do also post these on my Fet profile, but this can be harder to see in the time you need to respond by than one in your email.

Jan

2024

In Search of a Definition of CNC

Somewhere in between all the other things I find time to do, I’ve written a class on Negotiating and Communicating for CNC.

To this end, I asked in my planning for folks to give me definitions of CNC that didn’t involve the words “consensual” or “non-consent”. I was fascinated by the responses that came up: all of them were somewhat different, some with great deviation. For posterity’s sake/because I think it might be interesting even to folks who wouldn’t take such a class, I’ve tried to sort them some here to give a better picture of those answers.

Common Themes

A focus on trust:

“CNC is an informed and conscious choice to trust yourself, body and soul, to another person or persons.”
“It’s giving all of yourself to someone else who could destroy your inner workings and your body and trusting them not to.”
“Complete trust in a Dominant or top, taking into consideration a personal willingness to suffer and/or push boundaries”
“Using trust as a way to add fear and intensity to play.”
“putting your life in someone else’s hands”

A focus on giving up choice:

“One (or more) partner waiving the right to choose and empowering another to act or choose in their place.”
“one person abdicates the ability to give or remove consent.”
“Abdicating responsibility for oneself/one’s choices within a framework of care and regard.”
“the enthusiastic giving up of power and choice to another for an agreed upon amount of time”
“two (or more) people agreeing to engage in either a single event or ongoing relationship where the recipient of sensation offers complete decision making to the giver of sensation”
“I don’t eat, buy or drink anything without permission, ever; I don’t have any choice over where I live or what job I have. I’ve given up power over my existence. That’s more TPE to some folks, but to me they go hand in hand.”
“Choosing to give up your ability to say no in order to gain the power to scream it.”

An inner experience:

“It’s a feeling that I exist solely for his pleasure. It’s that belief within”
“It’s not being allowed to say no. It’s wanting to never say no.”
“Jesus, take the wheel.”

Points of disagreement

Roleplay or Reality:

“All parties agree it is okay and desirable to do something to one of them that they ACTUALLY DON’T want. (Possibly for experiencing force, disgust, shame, humiliation, or violation. Possibly for demonstrating service, commitment, loyalty, submission. Etc)”
“It doesnt matter if I want to because I made an earlier commitment that I would for this person, and I understood and agreed to the risk of having to do something I might not like”
“it leaves less to chance than your average vanilla sexual encounter, but gives the illusion of less control”
“I want to but I’m pretending I dont want to because doing so is arousing to at least one of us. (sometimes but not always rape play, sometimes just being bratty)”
“To edge closer to that headspace I would need to really believe that I had zero say in what was done to me.”

Safeword or Limits Use/Lackthereof:

“Allowing your partner to take as much pleasure from your body as they desire in any way they desire, whether it be pain, mind fucks, sex, etc without the security of a safe word to stop the act.”
“Play where, with the exceptions of safe words, the Dominant takes as they wish within the negotiated limits, with the appearance of breaking consent through force, coercion, etc.”
“it’s possible to use a safeword in CNC, but it’s “advisory.” As Captain Barbossa might say, “It’s more like…guidelines, than actual rules.” The safeword can help the top determine where the bottom is, but the top has the option to ignore it.”
“Agree to a clearly defined structure within which your disagreement is immaterial; for pleasure or purpose.”
“Based on information exchanged before, knowing exactly when “No” means “Yes pleasee”, and acting on it.”
“Any play eschewing “no” or “stop” as a safeword, or ignoring pleas of discomfort or refusal and “going for it anyway”
“Engaging in a limited negotiated scenario in which a person openly allows another party or parties to proactively ignore any objection or refusal so that the party or parties may proceed at their own discretion through completion of said scenario.”

What does it encompass?

“Forced aggression”
“Rape play”
“Sleep play/intoxication play”
Not sleep or intoxication play: “CNC loses that first “C” when the person is no longer able to communicate in any sort of way.”

Conclusions

All of these answers being a little different, it is clear to me that—while I believe this is necessary in bringing up *any* sort of play for the first time—defining terms is of the utmost importance when discussing entering into some sort of CNC. Saying CNC is not enough. What this is needs to be approached through open-ended questions.

A top I spoke to about this advised being on the same page about “what the bottom wants to experience,” and that seems the best possible discussion to me. Is it about giving up all choice? Is it about aggression? Is it about the ability to fully act as if it is something they don’t want to do (even though they do) without being stopped? Do they want the experience of feeling total devotion? Any of these could be the answer (or very much *not* the answer), depending on the person.

It seems especially important those interested in CNC discuss
1) whether or not anything will be used as a safeword, and
2) whether or not the activities engaged in should be ones that the bottom really doesn’t like or activities they’re okay with, just with the illusion of force/manipulation/coercion behind them.

Housekeeping
Please note these are quotes taken from some of the definitions. I was not able to include all of them in a logical fashion. Sometimes, multiple quotes may come from one answer. [If you’d like, you can read them in original form on Fetlife here. Or, if you want to join in on the conversation, you can do so in the comments of the original posting of this analysis on Fetlife here.

Discussion is okay; value judgement and kink-shaming will not be tolerated on this post. I understand some folks feel that playing without a safeword or limits or playing intoxicated is abusive; I expect you to understand and respect that other folks do not agree.

Want to be included in future research surveys? Follow me on Fetlife or, to be sure it doesn’t get lost, subscribe to my substack here.

vahavta does research

So you want to DECREASE your pain tolerance…

Method One: Changes to the Play Itself

Method Two: Simply Not Engaging in Tolerance-Increasing Activities

Method Three: Things that Require Extreme Caution

Method Four: Mind Tricks

Analysis: Why Emotional S/m?

It makes us feel seen.

Authenticity

Intimacy

It helps us explore ourselves.

It’s hot.

“I deserve it.”

Housekeeping/Interesting things.

Why Younger Kinksters Don’t Attend Your Venue

Methodology and disclaimers

We don’t feel like our safety will be protected.

We experience a blatant disregard for boundaries, negotiation, and our own agency and knowledge.

The “old guard” community is worrisome to us.

Our scenes get interrupted.

We only exist to be other people’s fetishes.

Our identities themselves aren’t respected.

When we do try and make things better, we’re met with terrible responses.

Other answers

Conclusions

In Search of a Definition of Edge Play

What is edge play as a concept?

What is edge play, specifically?

Why do it?

Conclusions

Housekeeping

In Search of a Definition of CNC

Common Themes

Points of disagreement

Conclusions

(And PS: one of my favorite things about Substack is that you can click through WITHOUT subscribing, in case you need proof that I hardly ever use this thing. You do not need to be worried about email spam with me, I assure you.)